For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
1 Cor 1:18 (NIV)
Below is a transcript of a recent conversation that I had with someone whom I will name "Sue" to protect their personal information. I think it is an enlightening look at how people converse about matters of faith. I re-post it here in the hope that you will read it, point out my blunders, pray for all involved, and use it to strengthen your own ability to converse about such things.
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Sue,
Since you had some strong opinion based upon my recent post of a Joel Osteen greeting card advertisement, I wanted to open up a dialogue and create a forum where you can discuss your thoughts in a respectful way and we could possibly learn from each other.
Perhaps these few articles will get you thinking and can provide some basis to continue the conversation. Take a look at them and let me know what you think.
http://jasonallenglover.blogspot.com/2011/05/do-right-thing.html
http://jasonallenglover.blogspot.com/2012/05/gay-marriage.html
I hope you will take the time to look at the articles. I would love to hear back from you after you read them.
Jason
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Jason,
WOW... let me start here... "If we can conclude that same-sex attraction is sinful/ wrong despite any genetic proclivity, due to either objective or normative morality, we can obviously make the plea for those facing such urges to exercise a great deal of self-denial for the good of themselves and our society. It is actually quite heroic to be predisposed towards something and overcome it. We certainly applaud those genetic alcoholics who remain sober."
You are actually asking a gay person to not act on their desires? Seriously? And the whole predisposed theory... comparing your temper, or the mind of a pedophile, to a gay person is MORALLY wrong. I know that no matter what any of our opinions are..... this is simply your opinion, my opinion etc. Please keep one thing in mind.... as a parent of 3 children... if you raise them to believe this, what happens when one or more is gay? You would rather them life a life of lies and sadness not being able to be happy with whom they are because they know their parents will not accept them? I am not gay. Nor are any of my children, (for which I am thankful for the simple reason that life is hard enough and I dont want people with such beliefs to make it any harder on them) but what I wonder.. why do you care what other people do with their lives? Why do you care who marries who? How is being born gay any different from being born black, white, or being born with retardation, etc.
Sadly I know many people feel the way your family and friends apparently do. I lost my best friend to cancer a few years ago, she was gay. She was the kindest, woman I have ever had the privilege of knowing. She was also a devote christian. As she lay on her death bed begging for a minister to come pray with her, he came in her room and after being her accepting minister for her entire life, stood there and told her he hoped she rotted in hell for choosing the lifestyle he was so accepting in his congregation of. I of course told him to fuck off and kicked him out of her room. He was happy to be her minister and take her money every sunday but couldnt say a kind word to her on her death bed? I had to reassure my dying friend the one thing I was always told.... "god forgives ALL sins... in his eyes no one sin is worse than another". She died worrying that she was going to hell when that thought had never crossed her mind before.
I respect you and your opinions, and meant no disrespect but I think you need to keep in mind who may be reading things posted like that and who you could be hurting.
A fav quote of mine.... "to be a christian means to forgive the inexcusable because God has forgiven the inexcusable in You" by CS Elliot
Sue
PS - And here is a good point since you want to follow the words of the bible so closely....
Dear Dr. Laura,
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's law. I have learned a great deal from you, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.
When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with this?
I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as it suggests in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
Lev. 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around us. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans but not Canadians. Can you clarify?
I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 10:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
Lev. 20:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.
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Sue,
Let me start by saying that I am very sorry that your friend was treated that way by the minister. His actions were un-Christ-like and absolutely reprehensible. I understand your pain and your vigorous opinion on this subject because of your personal experience. Again, I am horrified by his actions and so sorry for that ordeal.
As for some of the questions you posed, let me try and answer them point by point:
1) I am saying that we should ask people with homosexual tendencies not to act upon their desires. We ask married men not to cheat even if they want to, we ask teenagers not to have sex when they are first hitting puberty, we ask poor people not to rob others...There are lots of examples within society where we ask people not to act upon their proclivities, even if they would be happier should they do so.
2) It is vital that we ask for this restraint because of two reasons...One, the Word of God is plain in telling us that homosexuality is morally wrong. Your "Dr Laura" quote talks about some other laws and I will address those later in this reply, but for now we can stand firm that both the Old and the New Testament are clear about the immorality of homosexuality. I can provide text references if requested. Two, homosexuality is naturally abhorrent. Throw God out of the window and look at the natural world. It is clear that males and females (of all species) were created/ evolved for the specific purpose of coupling for procreation. To usurp that natural order defies common-sense. Yes, there are examples of homosexual acts within other species but that is always the exception, not the rule and can be easily explained by the Fall. We can't appeal to the Bible to condone homosexuality and we can't look to nature to see it as the norm. No matter where we look, the verdict is the same...it is not moral or intended behavior.
3) I am unsure how me comparing my genetic temper or a alcoholics genetic proclivity to booze, or a pedophiles genetic desire for kids is "morally" wrong. Can you elaborate? All I am saying is that people are born into sinful natures, we all struggle with different things. The question isn't "was he born that way?" The question is "is that thing right/ good?"
4) I have 3 kids too. We are looking to adopt internationally soon. My primary concern isn't about my kids sexuality, its about their relationship with Jesus. One of my boys could grow up gay. I would continue to love him, have him (and his partner if he has one) over for dinner, etc...I am not to be lumped into the fanatical camp of people who write gays off. Homosexuality is a sin, so is fornication, theft, unrighteous anger, dishonoring ones parents, etc...I would not disown my child if he was gay. I will teach them that being gay is immoral, because God says it is. I will try an steer them towards counseling if they have homosexual feelings as a teen. I won't beat them or throw them out or condemn them though. My primary concern is that their heart knows Jesus. They can still do that and struggle with being gay. And if they choose to embrace a gay lifestyle in total, I will love them as always and pray for them constantly.
5) I care what people do in their lives and who they marry because God cares and because the normalization of homosexuality has historically been a bad thing for societies. Nothing good comes out of this self-edification that the gay movement has so successfully propagated. Christ isn't glorified, families are not made stronger, culture isn't advanced.
6) Being born gay is very different that being born black or retarded. Homosexuality is a proclivity AND a choice. Black people don't get to choose their shade of color and retarded individuals can't usually overcome their disabilities. Its the difference between choice and no choice.
7) I am aware that my opinions can hurt people's feelings. I use that knowledge to be very careful in the way that I express my thoughts. I pray that God allows me to express truth, in love. I won't be silent just because it may offend someone else and I wouldn't ask anyone else to be silent for fear that they may offend me. I believe that healthy, well-reasoned, and respectful discourse is a vital (and missing) component of our lives.
8) The quote, by CS Lewis is an excellent one. It is from "The Weight of Glory", which sits on the back of my toliet at this moment. I would remind you to read it in full context and note that Lewis marks a clear differentiation between asking for forgiveness and asking to be excused. Too often, we want God (and others) to excuse those sins that we commit or that we don't think are all that bad. Forgiveness of sin is our salvation and it only comes by way of confession in the finished work of Christ and repentance. There is no biblical mandate to suggest that God will forgive the unrepentant. We should, as believers, forgive others. However, forgiving others does not mean turning a blind eye to blatant sin.
9) In a sense I hate that our conversation is stuck on gay marriage because the truth is so much more broad. Our society is overrun by sexual immorality, idol-worship, and evil. At the core of all of these things is Pride. It is the unrepentant heart of man that says "what makes me feel good, not what God commands." This talk could be applied to any number of other sins...divorce, abortion, spousal abuse, etc...
10) As for the various Old Testament laws that the Dr Laura quote brings up...there were three types of laws in the time of ancient Israel. Moral law, Judicial law, and Ceremonial law. Moral law (such as the Ten Comandents) are eternal and unchanging. They make a broad statement that a certain thing is wrong. The declarations against homosexuality in the OT are rooted in Moral law and often expressed in Judicial law. Judicial law is the bedrock of rules that God gave to govern, and set-apart, his people. The other people-groups of that era had little restraint in their wickedness. God enacted certain laws to keep his people pure in their adherence to him. The guy working on the Sabbath is an example there. Lots of those Judicial laws appall us today. Of course, we must remember that God is most concerned with His Glory, not human comfort, so even the "distasteful" laws served the highest good. Ceremonial laws were just that, used for ceremony...how to sacrifice bulls and all. It is a category error to try and lump all of these types of laws in with each other.
11) I am a Reformed Evangelical Protestant Christian. I wasn't raised that way. I was agnostic until I was 27. I explored Islam, Buddhism, and plain old Hendonism while I was in the military. All of those left me with a longing for truth. I found that truth in Christ 7 years ago. Since then I have devoted myself to studying the Word and trying to live a sanctified life that bring Glory to God and which extolls the name of Jesus. I have only come to the place where I could have strong, but respectful, dialogue in the last year or two. I know that lots of people out there express their opinions with rhetoric laden with fallacies. I try hard not to do that and I hope that you may have had some thoughts spark, even as you disagree with me on this (and other) issues.
As for some of the questions you posed, let me try and answer them point by point:
1) I am saying that we should ask people with homosexual tendencies not to act upon their desires. We ask married men not to cheat even if they want to, we ask teenagers not to have sex when they are first hitting puberty, we ask poor people not to rob others...There are lots of examples within society where we ask people not to act upon their proclivities, even if they would be happier should they do so.
2) It is vital that we ask for this restraint because of two reasons...One, the Word of God is plain in telling us that homosexuality is morally wrong. Your "Dr Laura" quote talks about some other laws and I will address those later in this reply, but for now we can stand firm that both the Old and the New Testament are clear about the immorality of homosexuality. I can provide text references if requested. Two, homosexuality is naturally abhorrent. Throw God out of the window and look at the natural world. It is clear that males and females (of all species) were created/ evolved for the specific purpose of coupling for procreation. To usurp that natural order defies common-sense. Yes, there are examples of homosexual acts within other species but that is always the exception, not the rule and can be easily explained by the Fall. We can't appeal to the Bible to condone homosexuality and we can't look to nature to see it as the norm. No matter where we look, the verdict is the same...it is not moral or intended behavior.
3) I am unsure how me comparing my genetic temper or a alcoholics genetic proclivity to booze, or a pedophiles genetic desire for kids is "morally" wrong. Can you elaborate? All I am saying is that people are born into sinful natures, we all struggle with different things. The question isn't "was he born that way?" The question is "is that thing right/ good?"
4) I have 3 kids too. We are looking to adopt internationally soon. My primary concern isn't about my kids sexuality, its about their relationship with Jesus. One of my boys could grow up gay. I would continue to love him, have him (and his partner if he has one) over for dinner, etc...I am not to be lumped into the fanatical camp of people who write gays off. Homosexuality is a sin, so is fornication, theft, unrighteous anger, dishonoring ones parents, etc...I would not disown my child if he was gay. I will teach them that being gay is immoral, because God says it is. I will try an steer them towards counseling if they have homosexual feelings as a teen. I won't beat them or throw them out or condemn them though. My primary concern is that their heart knows Jesus. They can still do that and struggle with being gay. And if they choose to embrace a gay lifestyle in total, I will love them as always and pray for them constantly.
5) I care what people do in their lives and who they marry because God cares and because the normalization of homosexuality has historically been a bad thing for societies. Nothing good comes out of this self-edification that the gay movement has so successfully propagated. Christ isn't glorified, families are not made stronger, culture isn't advanced.
6) Being born gay is very different that being born black or retarded. Homosexuality is a proclivity AND a choice. Black people don't get to choose their shade of color and retarded individuals can't usually overcome their disabilities. Its the difference between choice and no choice.
7) I am aware that my opinions can hurt people's feelings. I use that knowledge to be very careful in the way that I express my thoughts. I pray that God allows me to express truth, in love. I won't be silent just because it may offend someone else and I wouldn't ask anyone else to be silent for fear that they may offend me. I believe that healthy, well-reasoned, and respectful discourse is a vital (and missing) component of our lives.
8) The quote, by CS Lewis is an excellent one. It is from "The Weight of Glory", which sits on the back of my toliet at this moment. I would remind you to read it in full context and note that Lewis marks a clear differentiation between asking for forgiveness and asking to be excused. Too often, we want God (and others) to excuse those sins that we commit or that we don't think are all that bad. Forgiveness of sin is our salvation and it only comes by way of confession in the finished work of Christ and repentance. There is no biblical mandate to suggest that God will forgive the unrepentant. We should, as believers, forgive others. However, forgiving others does not mean turning a blind eye to blatant sin.
9) In a sense I hate that our conversation is stuck on gay marriage because the truth is so much more broad. Our society is overrun by sexual immorality, idol-worship, and evil. At the core of all of these things is Pride. It is the unrepentant heart of man that says "what makes me feel good, not what God commands." This talk could be applied to any number of other sins...divorce, abortion, spousal abuse, etc...
10) As for the various Old Testament laws that the Dr Laura quote brings up...there were three types of laws in the time of ancient Israel. Moral law, Judicial law, and Ceremonial law. Moral law (such as the Ten Comandents) are eternal and unchanging. They make a broad statement that a certain thing is wrong. The declarations against homosexuality in the OT are rooted in Moral law and often expressed in Judicial law. Judicial law is the bedrock of rules that God gave to govern, and set-apart, his people. The other people-groups of that era had little restraint in their wickedness. God enacted certain laws to keep his people pure in their adherence to him. The guy working on the Sabbath is an example there. Lots of those Judicial laws appall us today. Of course, we must remember that God is most concerned with His Glory, not human comfort, so even the "distasteful" laws served the highest good. Ceremonial laws were just that, used for ceremony...how to sacrifice bulls and all. It is a category error to try and lump all of these types of laws in with each other.
11) I am a Reformed Evangelical Protestant Christian. I wasn't raised that way. I was agnostic until I was 27. I explored Islam, Buddhism, and plain old Hendonism while I was in the military. All of those left me with a longing for truth. I found that truth in Christ 7 years ago. Since then I have devoted myself to studying the Word and trying to live a sanctified life that bring Glory to God and which extolls the name of Jesus. I have only come to the place where I could have strong, but respectful, dialogue in the last year or two. I know that lots of people out there express their opinions with rhetoric laden with fallacies. I try hard not to do that and I hope that you may have had some thoughts spark, even as you disagree with me on this (and other) issues.
Jason
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A friend (Kim) chimes in...
Jason, I am in 100% agreement with what you wrote, the words you chose and examples you picked. I'm a serious drug addict. but I have a choice to use or not to use. I choose NOT to use and haven't used in years!!!!! God's word tells me NOT to do certain things and it is VERY clear on them all. Homosexuality is in there. It's not a sin to be gay but it is indeed a sin to act upon it. You did a GREAT job, Jason. When does you Sunday School Class begin? I think you would be REALLY good at teaching. Give those boys a hug and kiss from me. Haven't seen the newest one YET and have n't seen the other two since I painted their faces in the Fall!!!!
I reply...
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Kim,
I know that you have a first-hand account of what means to struggle deeply with a sin that seems to want and control you AND to overcome it daily through the power of the Holy Spirit.
I agree with you that the Bible is very clear on a great number of issues that the world sees as fuzzy today. That is usually because of one of three different problems:
1) People don't really believe the Bible to be the inherent and infallible Word of the Living God
2) People have not studied the Scriptures in a sufficient manner to understand what is being said within context and within the grand narrative.
3) People want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to say that they believe in God, Jesus, and the Bible but then they want to disregard the parts of His Word that they don't like. That is a logical non sequiter. Folks can't claim to be Christian and then pick and choose from amongst the verses they like.
That said, I would disagree with you on this point...Having homosexual tendencies or feelings IS a sin in itself. Remember, it is the nature of the heart that is sinful, not our actions. Jesus is clear on this in Matthew 5. Lust is as bad as Adultery. Hate is as bad as Murder. The condition of our heart is the spiritual problem, not our outward actions. Only by trusting in Christ can the condition of our heart be "made right" before God and the process of becoming more like Jesus begin.
Of course, there is a practical side to sin and, while all sins are spiritually equal and result in eternal death without the work of Christ in our life, some sins do carry more obvious consequences than others. A man looking at porn is just as spiritually wrong as him having an affair, but there are certainly practical consequences of each that are far from equal.
In that same way, having homosexual feelings is just as bad of a sin as acting upon them would be in terms of the spiritual consequence. Yet, Paul makes it clear that one can be expected to struggle with the pruning of our heart, even after we come to faith, but the expectation for actions within a believer's life is held to a higher standard.
Take a look at 1 Cor 5. We are told not associate with a person who calls themselves "brother or sister" and who simultaneously engages in a lifestyle of sin.
Everyone struggles with issues like envy, anger, pride, etc... Some people struggle deeply with addiction, lust, homosexuality, greed. Everyone in these struggles will slip sometimes and say or do something to act upon those proclivities. The problem lies not in an occasional slip-up that leads to repentance. The issue is when people who claim to be Christian willingly engage in a grievous and habitual lifestyle of blatant sin with no conviction over their actions.
We are told to "expel" or excommunicate that person. Of course, we don't do that harshly. There are steps we take and Jesus outlines them in Matthew 18:15-17. We give those people every chance to repent and be restored, but we may have to cast them out of they refuse.
I think we need more church discipline in the world today. It is something that the mainline Protestant denominations have failed at miserably. To be honest, the Southern Baptists have been lax at it also. Only the PCA has been consistent with it in my experience. Elders and Pastors are called to love AND guard their flock. We need more guarding.
Thanks for all your kudos. Tiff and I teach a small LifeGroup for our church. I have been blessed with a gift for learning and teaching. I hope that it is being well used to bring Glory to the Lord. I will certainly give the kids many hugs and kisses!
I agree with you that the Bible is very clear on a great number of issues that the world sees as fuzzy today. That is usually because of one of three different problems:
1) People don't really believe the Bible to be the inherent and infallible Word of the Living God
2) People have not studied the Scriptures in a sufficient manner to understand what is being said within context and within the grand narrative.
3) People want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to say that they believe in God, Jesus, and the Bible but then they want to disregard the parts of His Word that they don't like. That is a logical non sequiter. Folks can't claim to be Christian and then pick and choose from amongst the verses they like.
That said, I would disagree with you on this point...Having homosexual tendencies or feelings IS a sin in itself. Remember, it is the nature of the heart that is sinful, not our actions. Jesus is clear on this in Matthew 5. Lust is as bad as Adultery. Hate is as bad as Murder. The condition of our heart is the spiritual problem, not our outward actions. Only by trusting in Christ can the condition of our heart be "made right" before God and the process of becoming more like Jesus begin.
Of course, there is a practical side to sin and, while all sins are spiritually equal and result in eternal death without the work of Christ in our life, some sins do carry more obvious consequences than others. A man looking at porn is just as spiritually wrong as him having an affair, but there are certainly practical consequences of each that are far from equal.
In that same way, having homosexual feelings is just as bad of a sin as acting upon them would be in terms of the spiritual consequence. Yet, Paul makes it clear that one can be expected to struggle with the pruning of our heart, even after we come to faith, but the expectation for actions within a believer's life is held to a higher standard.
Take a look at 1 Cor 5. We are told not associate with a person who calls themselves "brother or sister" and who simultaneously engages in a lifestyle of sin.
Everyone struggles with issues like envy, anger, pride, etc... Some people struggle deeply with addiction, lust, homosexuality, greed. Everyone in these struggles will slip sometimes and say or do something to act upon those proclivities. The problem lies not in an occasional slip-up that leads to repentance. The issue is when people who claim to be Christian willingly engage in a grievous and habitual lifestyle of blatant sin with no conviction over their actions.
We are told to "expel" or excommunicate that person. Of course, we don't do that harshly. There are steps we take and Jesus outlines them in Matthew 18:15-17. We give those people every chance to repent and be restored, but we may have to cast them out of they refuse.
I think we need more church discipline in the world today. It is something that the mainline Protestant denominations have failed at miserably. To be honest, the Southern Baptists have been lax at it also. Only the PCA has been consistent with it in my experience. Elders and Pastors are called to love AND guard their flock. We need more guarding.
Thanks for all your kudos. Tiff and I teach a small LifeGroup for our church. I have been blessed with a gift for learning and teaching. I hope that it is being well used to bring Glory to the Lord. I will certainly give the kids many hugs and kisses!
Jason
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Jason,
Fwiw, I have read the bible cover to cover many many times as I went to catholic school. I dont think its wrong to believe in God and yet question "the word", considering God himself did not write the bible. People did. I know this is an issue that many have problems with, but in the end this was created by man, who sins, and who was given free will to say their opinions and write them down, for people to still read today. Granted, I understand people believe God spoke to the men who created this book, but what would anyone think if I stood up to the world and said God came to me in a vision, and told me ....... (anything). I would be laughed off the planet. This has happened so many times thru out history and makes me sad because how do we know what they saw? Anymore than what the men that wrote the bible saw?
We all have our internal struggles we have to deal with. But I must say I still feel one day you will understand that being a drug addict, or whatever is not anything to be compared to being gay. Sadly this is something you will never understand on a personal level until you watch someone you love dearly struggle with it, then all your opinions slowly start to melt away and all you know is love and protecting the one you cherish.
There are proven statistics about the number of teenage suicides that are linked to parents trying to get their gay children "help" for those feelings, or trying to sway them another way. Imagine the courage it took that child to come to his/her parents and tell them this to receive this something like that? Instead of open arms, and a "that doesnt matter, you are always my child" period.
I wish I knew why this issue was so close to my heart and why I want to strangle people who are less than accepting of others in all that they are.... It always has been. Perhaps because I was raised that we are all the same and none should be treated differently. I have been told I was going to hell for having sex before marriage, for marrying a black man, for having a child with him, for getting divorced, and the list goes on and on. As Im sure it does for all of us. But hiding behind quotes from the bible does not answer right or wrong. Even our judicial system doesnt.
I respect your opinions, yet asked to be removed from this message feed, as I have made myself sick from worrying that people I know are being raised with such beliefs. I dont mean that cruelly, and apologize if that sounds harsh, but I cannot think about this anymore. It tears me apart. Sorry.
Sue
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Sue,
I will certainly remove you from the feed if you desire. I am sorry that you have been hurt so many times by people who would tell you that you are going to hell for who you marry, who you divorce, etc. People only go to hell for one reason, they did not trust in (I say trust, not believe because trust conveys giving ones whole life over, not mere mental assent) to Jesus.
Please don't assume that I have no interactions with homosexuals. I have (and have had) gay neighbors whom I have a great relationship with. I care for them deeply. I have worked with many gay people and seen some of their struggles. I am not cloistered from the gay community or people's very real issues just because I disagree with them. A physician comes to help the sick and be amongst them, not to stand at a distance and say "too bad." Although we may disagree on the subject, I am not akin to the people you may have met that distort God's Word to spread hate towards homosexuals. I hope you can see the difference despite the life experiences that have hurt you.
I don't understand why I can't both say "you are my child always with open arms" and "I disapprove of that choice" at the same time. God does that to us everyday and we do it as parents about a number of other things. I am not swayed by statistics. As a PoliSci major in college I understand how stats get distorted and manipulated for specific agendas. I am concerned with real life cases that I have influence over. I firmly believe that my children, gay or not, will be just fine as long as I keep Christ as the central message of my parenting.
As for the authenticity and inspiration of Scripture. To be an orthodox Christian, that is to believe the historical foundational tenets of the faith, is to believe that the Bible is "God-breathed." See 2 Tim 3:16 If you and I disagree with that premise, then we disagree at the "molecular level" about our faith and we would obviously disagree with secondary things like homosexuality.
I must tell you that I see things on facebook (and in the world) everyday that worry me. I was disturbed about your recent post highlighting you taking your teenage daughter to see a movie about male strippers and drugs. I don't think that is very edifying to her spirit or her view of relationships, sexuality, men, sobriety, etc... However, I didn't feel compelled to inform you of how sad that made me or remove you from my feed. I prayed for you to recognize the debauchery inherent in a movie like that and what it could do to her impressionable mind.
What I am saying is, don't flee from the hard discussions because they make you upset. It is in well-reasoned but difficult dialogue that we can often find the most powerful ideas.
I appreciate your concerns but I am not ashamed of my beliefs nor that I am raising my children with them. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the power of God to bring salvation. (Romans 1:16).
I will respect your desire to not think on this anymore, but I would be happy to discuss matters of faith with you in the future. We could start with our fundamental level of disagreement, the nature of Scripture, if you ever decide you want to continue our talk. Until then I will continue to pray for your wisdom and your faith. I would hope you will do the same for me.
Thanks for the discussion!
Please don't assume that I have no interactions with homosexuals. I have (and have had) gay neighbors whom I have a great relationship with. I care for them deeply. I have worked with many gay people and seen some of their struggles. I am not cloistered from the gay community or people's very real issues just because I disagree with them. A physician comes to help the sick and be amongst them, not to stand at a distance and say "too bad." Although we may disagree on the subject, I am not akin to the people you may have met that distort God's Word to spread hate towards homosexuals. I hope you can see the difference despite the life experiences that have hurt you.
I don't understand why I can't both say "you are my child always with open arms" and "I disapprove of that choice" at the same time. God does that to us everyday and we do it as parents about a number of other things. I am not swayed by statistics. As a PoliSci major in college I understand how stats get distorted and manipulated for specific agendas. I am concerned with real life cases that I have influence over. I firmly believe that my children, gay or not, will be just fine as long as I keep Christ as the central message of my parenting.
As for the authenticity and inspiration of Scripture. To be an orthodox Christian, that is to believe the historical foundational tenets of the faith, is to believe that the Bible is "God-breathed." See 2 Tim 3:16 If you and I disagree with that premise, then we disagree at the "molecular level" about our faith and we would obviously disagree with secondary things like homosexuality.
I must tell you that I see things on facebook (and in the world) everyday that worry me. I was disturbed about your recent post highlighting you taking your teenage daughter to see a movie about male strippers and drugs. I don't think that is very edifying to her spirit or her view of relationships, sexuality, men, sobriety, etc... However, I didn't feel compelled to inform you of how sad that made me or remove you from my feed. I prayed for you to recognize the debauchery inherent in a movie like that and what it could do to her impressionable mind.
What I am saying is, don't flee from the hard discussions because they make you upset. It is in well-reasoned but difficult dialogue that we can often find the most powerful ideas.
I appreciate your concerns but I am not ashamed of my beliefs nor that I am raising my children with them. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the power of God to bring salvation. (Romans 1:16).
I will respect your desire to not think on this anymore, but I would be happy to discuss matters of faith with you in the future. We could start with our fundamental level of disagreement, the nature of Scripture, if you ever decide you want to continue our talk. Until then I will continue to pray for your wisdom and your faith. I would hope you will do the same for me.
Thanks for the discussion!
Jason
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